CL: In the film, you skillfully paint all contradictions of the Montenegrin society – from the traditional, patriarchal mentality, permeated by naivety and superstition, to the emergence of the “new brand” capitalist world, abundant with hypocrisy, narcissism and corruption. How long did you write this script? What was the most difficult aspect dramaturgy-wise?

Ivan Marinović: I was writing and rewriting the script for three years. What was, particularly, helpful was that the project went through Berlinale Script Station, Jerusalem Film Lab as well as Midpoint, and I often searched for feedback by my colleagues and former professors. A fifth draft (in the literal sense, because when you work with the Israelies you have to write these drafts from the scratch), was the version I polished through rehearsals with actors, and that we shot in the end.

The screenplay was complicated from the perspective of dramaturgy, since the protagonist is the passive one, so the plot and actions develop through supporting characters, and all of that has to constantly draw various dimensions out of all of the characters to the surface. So there is no simple mathematics and three act formula that can solve your problems.

I had to flirt with the episodic structure, and to imitate the standard plot points for the film to remain dynamic and fun. That was the hardest job, but I am happy with how I solved those tasks, above all because now the film gets praised for its complexity of the story and its lifelike characters.

Those things are difficult to achieve with the typical character arc, usually developed by a conservative three act structure. And our hard work may be sort of an explanation for what is happening now - Nikola Ristanovski, who is an incredible actor with 78 awards in theather, just received his first film award for "The Black Pin".

CL: The very film title is an allusion to local legends, myths and superstitions. Were you a child when you heard for the first time this “witch story”?

Ivan Marinović: I indeed was, just like I was when I heard other stories from which I used different elements for this film. It is interesting how the title gets analysed - everyone finds their own metaphore, and through other people’s insights, even I discovered some new meanings, which were there from the beginning, but mainly subconsciously.  

CL: How much is this witchcraft idea present in your home coastal town?

Ivan Marinović: It is very present even today, just as other pagan beliefs are alive. But superstition is not something that is inherent only to us. It shifts and moulds its shape and it survives even in 21st century. I got the chance to spend some time on Venice Beach recently, and on the Ocean Front walk there you can find all kinds of colorful people. And you can find superstition on every footstep there.

Superstition is so ingrained in human kind, that it’s really hard work to become completely conscious of it. I think Trup wouldn’t have become president if it hadn’t been for the south with its superstitions.

CL: How long did it take to shoot the film?

Ivan Marinović: We had 4 weeks available. A very difficult schedule and very little money. We were crazily lucky with everything. We incorporated 2 days of rain in the story’s chronology. If there’d been a third day of rain, the entire project would’ve been threathened by huge compromises we’d have been forced to make. Mina Đukić was helping me out through the development process of the project, so we pitched the film a few times together. We always repeated that this was a production relying on miracles. And in the end it really was like that - in more than one situation I had a very intense feeling that the nature around us was working for us in completely miraculous ways.

CL: Many Yugoslav actors are cast in the film, headed by the Macedonian actor Nikola Ristanovski, with Croatian Leon Lučev, to Serbian veterans of Yugoslav films, Jelisaveta Sablić and Bogdan Diklića. What was it like to work with such greats in a debut?

Ivan Marinović: The specific dialect was a task for all the actors. We went through many rehearsals for that, both the individual and the group ones. I found an old teacher from Luštica peninsula who preserved this authentic local dialect, and he was kind enough to read the whole text, which later I had to cut and send to each actor to listen to. That helped a lot, and all of them took it very seriously and studied it carefully. Most of them were also coming to Luštica to spend some time there, and I was providing them with opportunities to meet local people. It was important for them to feel the local mentality and to get in touch with it, to be at the source of the story. But harder than the linguistic task was the one dealing with the mentality. I think they all did a great job.

Acting rehearsals were very exciting, the cast consisted of highly creative people, and I allowed them certain freedom to improvise with the text in order to find the best dynamics and rhythm of the scenes. I learned a lot in that process. The most important thing was the trust that the cast had in me, but that wouldn't have happened if the script they had in their hands hadn’t been good.

CL: Nikola Ristanovski, an ever great actor, was brilliant in the role of the priest Petar. His expressiveness and imitation of the local accent are marvellous, I couldn’t imagine another actor in this role. As this the first time you work together, did you immediately click or you both needed some time for Nikola’s character to grow on him?

Ivan Marinović: I am very proud of my work with Nikola, of the final result and of everything that he showcased through the character of father Peter. I was lucky to meet him before I started writing, so I had him in my mind for that role from the beginning.  

I sensed what he could do and how far he was willing to go. It is easy to discuss things with Nikola since his analysis of the character is very deep, and it goes into such detail that I didn't have to explain too much. It was all clear to him, and what I’d feel only intuitively, he could break down and see through it perfectly. Besides that he had many other great tasks - his speech apparatus is formed on the Czech language since he grew up there, and for him our language is really a foreign language in every sense of the word. People don't understand how difficult it is to act in a foreign language. Also, he had to handle the lithurgy singing and other technical things which are tied to the position of a priest. This concerns the preparation phase only and during the shoot he had to cope with me on a daily basis, and I am very grateful to him for his patience. Everything I asked him to do he knew how to bring life to the character – a lot of courage and trust was needed in order to achieve this performance of such strength and complexity.

CL: Jelisaveta Sablić is magnificent in the role of a demented grandmother. Such a truthful, detailed rendition of this disease is the result of in-depth research or of a life encounter with a person suffering from this illness?

Ivan Marinović: A few days ago there was a man in the audience who is the expert in the field, and he asked me who was our consultant, and I replied - "My grandmother". He was talking about different types of dementia, and how nuanced it all is, while claiming that Seka's performance is an incredibly precise version of Alzheimer's. Her scenes were inspired by my grandmother and her illness which the entire family was witnessing. It is an illness that poses many difficult questions, which subverts every learned concept of life and existence. And besides that, the fact that her character and her charm keeps being alive despite the memory loss was fascinating to me. Seka Sablić had to watch tapes of my grandmother that I made, in which there is a whirlwind of humor and charm and sadness and memories. Without making a charicature or imitating it, she managed to bring her alive in such a manner that many people who met my grandmother now write to me to express their astonishment at the emotions Seka’s performance evoked.

CL: Filming with children/teenagers may prove to be more difficult or even risky. What was your experience?

Ivan Marinović: My logic was to treat them as grown ups, as serious people who are up for the task as much as any other actor. Basically – to treat them with respect. And Filip Klicov’s talent, whose first shooting day was with the greats of Seka Sablić and Nikola Ristanovski, can’t be but respected.

CL: What is the role humour in the local context?

Ivan Marinović: I don't think there would be any truth to it without humor. But humor can't be its own purpose, it has to come out through situations and characters. The characters can't percieve their story as something funny. The actors shouldn’t act comedy. It is not something to be acted, it is something you achieve with different means.